Independence

Americans love independence.
• Our forefathers paid an awful price for us to have it
• As young people we revel in it
• As we age we look forward to the day when we can retire and rest in it

We struggle with the fact that other do not have it, sometimes concerned for them, but mostly miffed that we can't go to their countries and enjoy our same independence.

And I pastor an Independent Baptist Church.

Truth be told I have yet to meet a Baptist of any sort who would not defend the independence of their church.
• An American Baptist pastor defended his independence to me
• A General Association of Regular Baptists pastor preached it publically
• The Southern Baptist pastors adamantly proclaim the independence of their churches
• Missionary Baptists will fight for their right to be called independent
• Conservative Baptists believe their churches are independent congregations
As I presume the other what, twenty seven or so Baptist denominations do as well.

And of course among those who are independent Baptist churches, there is all sorts of rankling over which are the most independent of the independents.

I would hate to be anything less than independent; free to worship the Lord according to the dictates of conscience and not the whims of men.

But I see a whole lot of problems with being independent.
In many cases we are so independent we have no accountability. We do and say as we please and the only thing there is to stop us is; whether anyone will come to hear us preach and give their tithes and offerings when they do.

And we call them backslidden, rebellious or worse when they do not.

• Because we are independent we cannot be held accountable for our actions
• Because we are independent we often become self serving, do what is best for our own church (lest I say what is best for our own selves) at the expense of what is best for the cause of Christ or even what is best for the people we claim to be ministers to.

Because we are independent, we are completely unethical. Even when we are men of integrity we cannot be men of ethics because there is no one who is allowed to call us into account.

We are independent, but we are not loners. So we assemble together with other independents who appear to be compatible with us. But our union is more like a pack of stray dogs than a heard of the Lord's sheep. We submit to the most alpha among us, believing that he can make us as alpha as he is.

And when he falls:
And he does fall - those alphas are falling like flies. Believing the claims of everyone around them that they are incapable of failing, they fail.

And when he falls; we destroy him, hoping to be the next one to take his place as the leader of the pack, or at least be best friends with the guy who does get to be the leader of the pack.

I am all for independence.
But there is something to be said for organized unity. There is merit for purposeful, genuine concord with the strings to call one into question and bring one into accountability.

To my readers:

I would love to hear from you. Leave comments below.

For more than 3800 Daily Visits with God visit Pastor Marvin McKenzie’s blogger page. There you will find daily visits going back to 2006.

If you have been blessed by this blog, please subscribe to my feed and share it with others.

Please consider helping our church’s teen department by signing up for cash back shopping at Bible Baptist Church Fundraiser. This program has three levels of participation, the first being completely free.

For more resources from Pastor Marvin McKenzie visit Bible Baptist Church of Puyallup.

(photo from pixabay.com)

There Are A Lot To My Left

I just ran across an old blog from John Piper entitled, 20 Reasons I Don't Take Potshots at Fundamentalists. I was, of course, interested to see his perspective on Fundamentalism. I was also interested to read anything that would give Fundamentalism a positive spin especially in light of the negative spin of the recent 20/20 program and especially because I an aware that many of the IFBxers are avid followers of Piper.
The twenty reasons given range from the benign
"19. My dad was one." to the relatively sophisticated
"7. They put obedience to Jesus above the approval of man (even though they fall short, like others)."

But here is the one that struck my attention;
"20. Everybody to my left thinks I am one. And there are a lot of people to my left."

I am pretty sure Piper would consider me to be to his right, but I have felt that same sensation of having men on either side of me. Over the years I have had one or two who have left our services because they did not see us as:
• Separated enough
• Conservative enough or
• Politically right enough

But by far what I have witnessed most is that I am too fundamental for a whole lot of people, even Fundamentalists. There are a whole lot of people to my left.

This is not meant to be an excuse to yolk up with people further left of me just because there are people further left of them. But I do think that the point ought to be made that there are a whole lot of people who are so far left of us that we would be just as well off if we stopped worrying about where we are on that line and just went after (attempting to reach and win) the unconverted.

To my readers:

I would love to hear from you. Leave comments below.

For more than 3800 Daily Visits with God visit Pastor Marvin McKenzie’s blogger page. There you will find daily visits going back to 2006.

If you have been blessed by this blog, please subscribe to my feed and share it with others.

Please consider helping our church’s teen department by signing up for cash back shopping at Bible Baptist Church Fundraiser. This program has three levels of participation, the first being completely free.

For more resources from Pastor Marvin McKenzie visit Bible Baptist Church of Puyallup.

(photo from pixabay.com)

A Stomach For Christ

Just finished reading a blog from Justin Taylor. He speaks of those both inside and outside of the church that, "can't stomach traditional Christianity."

I have to wonder what ever happened that gave people inside the church the right to stomach or not to stomach the faith?

From the very first century - before Paul was off the scene, there were already those who had turned the faith of Christ into something other than conversion to Christ.

Attacks upon the Apostle and perversions of the Gospel make it apparent that human sin nature had infiltrated the churches early on, if not from the beginning. Jude wrote to earnestly contend for the faith once delivered, declaring that certain had crept in unawares to destroy and deny that very faith. Paul warned that wolves would come up from among those in the ministry. Much of his writing was an apology not only for the faith but for his own ministry within the faith. Obviously there were some who could not stomach the ministry of the very Apostle Paul.

What grieves me is that we don't seem to grieve over it today. Rather, we almost relish in the religious banter of those who claim to be of us but who can't stomach us. Traditional Christianity is the only truly sound Christianity. All other types of Christianity are not Christianity at all. Fundamental doctrines (rather than reformed by the way) are those only doctrines that the Apostle Paul or Jude would have stomached. That there are those today who cant stomach them should lead us to pray for them, but not to cater to them.

Marvin McKenzie
In the field

To my readers:

I would love to hear from you. Leave comments below.

For more than 3700 Daily Visits with God visit Pastor Marvin McKenzie’s blogger page. There you will find daily visits going back to 2006.

If you have been blessed by this blog, please subscribe to my feed and share it with others.

Please consider helping our church’s teen department by signing up for cash back shopping at Bible Baptist Church Fundraiser. This program has three levels of participation, the first being completely free.

For more resources from Pastor Marvin McKenzie visit Bible Baptist Church of Puyallup.

(photo from pixabay.com)

The Fishing Is Still Fine

At the moment of this writing it is my pleasure to host Evangelist Larry Clayton. This is perhaps the fifth or sixth year we have had he and Lois here and it is always such a pleasure.
This year Brother Clayton recounted the story of leading Jack and his wife to the Lord. Jack was a successful businessman and a recipient of the Korean Medal of Honor. But when Brother Clayton instructed he and his wife to kneel there at their couch and trust the Lord, their lives were forever changed.

Brother Clayton said he explained to Jack that he was not going to be in town much longer so he had to dump the whole load on him right then. Jack told him to go ahead and pile it on. Brother Clayton told him about

• baptism
• church membership
• faithfulness and
• service

He told him about

• prayer and
• Bible study and
• tithing

He gave him a whole discipleship program in one night.

Months later Brother Clayton spoke to Jack who said, "I've been doing just what you told me to do preacher."
A few years later he quit his successful career and went to Bible College. He and his son were students at the same time.
Jack served on Brother Clayton's revival teams for two years and went on to pastor a church on the East Coast until Alzheimer's took his mind. (Jack's wife one time confided to Brother Clayton that she was just about to divorce Jack that day the preacher came and led them to know Christ.)

And then Brother Clayton looked me in the eyes and said, "It doesn't seem like we catch that big of fish much any more."

Times have changed even in the world of fishing. Fishermen just don't catch as big of fish as they once did. In some cases the big fish they once caught no longer exist. A friend who has worked for the fish hatchery service in Oregon once told me that the species of Salmon from the Columbia River that could weigh 100-150 pounds no longer exists. It is not merely that salmon are being caught before they can reach that size but that the species of salmon that grew to such great sizes has been eliminated; fished into extinction. Tales of catching those fish are left to fewer and fewer people who are still alive to tell the stories. Mind you, it is not that there are no fish to catch today. They are just not those fish.

I went out to eat with Brother Clayton and Pastor Benjamin Park, from Korea tonight. Brother Clayton told us stories of preaching in Korea in the 60's and 70's when nine thousand factory workers would come stand in the fields and listen  to him preach. Scores of professions of faith in Christ were made and churches were planted almost daily in those days. Pastor Park mused almost under his breath, "I wish we could see those days again, but I am afraid they are over." To which Brother Clayton replied, "It is a different kind of work now, but no less important."

In other words, the fishing is still fine, even though it is a different sort of fish we catch.

Marvin McKenzie
From the field

To my readers:

I would love to hear from you. Leave comments below.

For more than 3700 Daily Visits with God visit Marvin McKenzie’s blogger page. There you will find daily visits going back to 2006.

If you have been blessed by this blog, please subscribe to my feed and share it with others.

Please consider helping our church’s teen department by signing up for cash back shopping at Bible Baptist Church Fundraiser. This program has three levels of participation, the first being completely free.

For more resources from Pastor Marvin McKenzie visit Bible Baptist Church of Puyallup.

(photo from pixabay.com)

I am a Fundamentalist

Hello. My name is Marvin. And I am a Fundamentalist.
I became a Christian in 1977. Trusting Christ as my Saviour has been the single most wonderful thing that has happened in my fifty two years of life on planet earth.

It would seem by some of what I have read lately that it is just unfortunate that it was a fundamental conversion that took place in my life. From the "IBFxers" to the Evangelicals, to the newly "Reformed Christian," it seems that the main stream Christian blogger, you know, the one whose stuff gets read by the larger numbers of relevant Christians, have little to nothing kind to say about a Fundamental Baptist. One blogger, does the kind service of finding and posting the horror stories of those who, like me, were unfortunate enough to have become involved in a Fundamental Baptist Church (but unlike me, are now fortunate enough to have escaped this torment).

I have read that we may be "rabid" and that perhaps the best thing to do when encountering a Fundamental Baptist is just run. I am reminded of an article I read many years ago about the forming of a group called Fundamentalists Anonymous. I dismissed it then. But maybe I just could not recognize the seriousness of this illness.

Perhaps I am still in the denial stages of my disease. I just don't get the problem.

Ok. I will admit that there have been some excesses among Fundamental Baptists. We've had our headline cases of top tier preachers caught in the immoral. And even among those who have done nothing criminal there are certainly cases a plenty of abuses of power. But is that really a problem inherent only to Fundamental Baptists? Isn't that more a problem inherent to humanity in general? Are there not cases sufficient to demonstrate that even among the more relevant religious leader models sin still exists? Aren't there at least a few who would disdain the title Fundamental Baptist from whose presence it would be best to flee?

I am still excusing my disease aren't I? I just don't get it.

And what is wrong with Fundamentalism anyway?

• Do we really want to believe a doctrine that is not fundamental?
• If our faith is not fundamental, meaning foundational, is it really worthy of our faith?
• Wasn't Christ's real message to the Pharisees to return to the fundamentals of their walk with God?

So what if the Fundamental Baptists believe the Bible has no error? Would it be better to believe it has error but hypocritically claim to follow it?

Let's see. What damage had been done (besides that same sort of damage that can be attributed to being human in general and not Fundamental Baptist in particular)?

• Fundamental Baptists have supported thousands of missionaries around the world, not only doing evangelistic work and planting new churches, but rendering all sorts of humanitarian assistance in places like Sri Lanka, New Orleans, and Haiti.
• Fundamental Baptists have voted alongside other morally and patriotically minded Americans for laws that encourage Biblical principles be followed in our country.
• Fundamental Baptists have urged husbands and wives to stay faithful to their marriage vows, learning to love one another and to raise their children in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.
• Fundamental Baptists have led programs intended to keep children off of drugs and alcohol and out off the sexual bed until marriage.

I just don't get it. It sure doesn't look like rabies to me.

Just looks like some seriously angry people who have found a popular venue in which to vent.

So I am not an IFBxer. I am more like an IFB+er.

My name is Marvin. And I am...a Fundamental Baptist.

Marvin McKenzie

From the Field

To my readers:

I would love to hear from you. Leave comments below.

For more than 3700 Daily Visits with God visit Marvin McKenzie’s blogger page. There you will find daily visits going back to 2006.

If you have been blessed by this blog, please subscribe to my feed and share it with others.

Please consider helping our church’s teen department by signing up for cash back shopping at Bible Baptist Church Fundraiser. This program has three levels of participation, the first being completely free.

For more resources from Pastor Marvin McKenzie visit Bible Baptist Church of Puyallup.

(photo from pixabay.com)

The Thick Gray Line

Is there some debate over Fundamentalism?
In my earlier days in the faith I knew there were those who were not Fundamentalists but I could not have imagined that they were remotely more substantial than were those who held to a literal view of the Bible. By the way, that is my working definition of a Fundamentalist, someone who believes what were known as the fundamental doctrines of Christian faith.

What I have come to learn is that they (those who do not claim to be Fundamentalists) not only vastly outnumber the Fundamentalists (at least that is by their own statistics. I do not know how accurate their claims are) but a huge number who still claim to be in the Fundamentalist camp sound much more like evangelicals than Fundamentalists.

What makes the man who follows John Piper a Fundamentalist when John Piper would not claim to be one personally? Could it really be as simple as the Fundamentalist is only one because he still is willing to call himself one? If men like Mohler and Piper and Dever are not fundamentalists even though they claim to be at least theologically conservative, is there something categorical that delineates the difference beside personal preference?

The term Fundamentalism has a history.
It is not a Baptist history necessarily and not one I am all that intrigued with anyway. But it's history ought to say something about who bears the label. The same would be true of evangelical. It appears to me that the lines between the two have, over these years, far from becoming more pronounced, become thicker and more obscure. Oh, not from the evangelical's perspective. He would never have wanted to be included in the ranks of a Fundamentalist.

Not so the Fundamentalist.
The term was used of men who held certain fundamental doctrines regardless of denomination. Being a Fundamentalist was bigger than being a Baptist, or a Methodist, or a Presbyterian. Indeed those denominational lines were crossed regularly among Fundamentalists. It seems no wonder then that a so called Fundamentalist would see no challenge in crossing the lines into evangelical circles.

That would not be true of historical Baptists.
They were not party to the revival meetings of Wesley, Whitefield or for the most part even Sunday and Moody. It was later, when Baptists united with Fundamentalists that being a Fundamentalist trumped being a Baptist.

I am then a Fundamentalist not because I belong to a Fundamentalist movement, nor because I have always been a Fundamentalist and I claim a right to the title even if I have abandoned the practices of Fundamentalists of the past. I am a Fundamentalist in this one line alone - and a very strong cord it has upon me. I believe those fundamentals.

Marvin McKenzie
In the field